Posts by Cold Steel

23

Headed to vegas! Anything i should do?

by _Morpheus in

jw
friends

the tittle is self explanitory.... first trip to vegas, anything i should do besides gamble?.

Cold Steel

It's more like what you shouldn't do in Vegas, but yes, eat.

Gamble? Send me your money. I don't know who said it, but whoever said that gambling was a tax on people who are bad at math sure had it right.

My brother lived there. One day while visiting there (my wife was attending a professional conference), he came down from Cedar City and he asked me what I wanted to do. I saw a big storm over a mountain that reminded me of the movie, The Ten Commandments. "Can you get me up there in the middle of that," I asked him. He said he could and off we went. We drove to the mountain and up the mountain. It was sunny and beautiful all the way up, but soon it darkened and then snow began hitting the windshield. Pretty soon snow was hitting us from every side and I could see no sun anywhere. We were sliding around and it was beautiful. We saw another car that was stuck and some people were pushing it, and soon they got it going. So we turned around and I told him I thought we ought to get out of there.

We turned around and he began speeding down the mountain, but on the other side. Within ten minutes, it was bright and sunny again and fifteen minutes we were zipping past sand and cactus. We could see the storm up the mountain, but it was now hot. Way too hot for snow! I'd never seen such rapid changes in weather.

Anyway, we had a hoot. And we kept on driving. When I told my wife that night that we almost got stuck in a blizzard earlier in the day, she thought I was lying. I'd love to do it again.

Oh, make sure you watch the movie Casino before you go.

https://youtube/kGp3PrC1CKI

32

If Jesus had to choose his earthly organisation NOW, who would win?

by stuckinarut2 in

we all know that the society claims that jesus invisibly chose the bible students (forerunners of jw) in 1919 to be his organization here on earth.. yet, as we know, so much of what they then taught and did was wrong according to current teaching and practice.. the reply witnesses will give is something like "they were the most sincere seekers of truth blah blah...and jesus could see their potential".

so, pretend for a moment that the current organization and the 1919 organization were both in concurrent existence at the time he invisibly came to choose.... which would he choose?

the current or former?.

Cold Steel

Yes, well I'm assuming that once Jehovah chose the organization that he would have made some personnel changes. If I'd been Rutherford, I would have built a nice mansion for the resurrected prophets who would soon be coming to the earth. Then, when they didn't show up, I'd kind of move in for lengthy respites -- you know, just to keep the place comfortable and "lived in." Then...er...wait. Never mind.

I'm sure there would have been some changes.

But if I were Jehovah, I think I'd choose another leader. Of course, doing it invisibly has its problems. People don't always do what you want them to when it's invisible. I would have used thunder, lightning, power and great glory, then chosen someone else. I don't know how I would have gotten that last part across if no one could see it, though. Spectacular but invisible. Difficult indeed.

It's difficult to run an organization when the leaders can't see you or hear you or have no idea what you want. You can yell, "NO SHUNNING...love each other like I said in the New Testament," and they do just the opposite. If you start striking them all dead it just makes room for opportunists and new rules.

32

If Jesus had to choose his earthly organisation NOW, who would win?

by stuckinarut2 in

we all know that the society claims that jesus invisibly chose the bible students (forerunners of jw) in 1919 to be his organization here on earth.. yet, as we know, so much of what they then taught and did was wrong according to current teaching and practice.. the reply witnesses will give is something like "they were the most sincere seekers of truth blah blah...and jesus could see their potential".

so, pretend for a moment that the current organization and the 1919 organization were both in concurrent existence at the time he invisibly came to choose.... which would he choose?

the current or former?.

Cold Steel

The concept of man creating a church and having it "chosen" is unique. Anciently, God was the active force and man the passive. The JW concept of man being the active player and God being the passive player is a concept that originated with the early leaders of the Watchtower Society.

But since you give us only two selections and ask us to choose, I think old Jah would go with the earlier organization. As far as I know, it didn't exercise the dictatorial control over its followers and how they were to dress, groom themselves, educate themselves and so forth. And somehow, he'd have to go with them.

Given further latitude, I think he would choose the Eastern Orthodox faith.

10

Research Help?

by vienne in

as at least some of you know, i am coauthor of two history books about zion's watch tower's earliest years.

we are at a dead end with one of the watch tower's earliest evangelists, s. d. rogers.

we do not know his first name or have any biography outside of a scattering of newspaper articles and mentions in zwt.

Cold Steel

Hmmm...only a guess, but most men of that designation "S" in the 1800s was "Samuel" and "D" would have been either Daniel or David. Since it's unlikely to be Daniel (because of the -el ending) in this case, it's most likely Davis, Dickens, Dawson or other family name. If you know his birth place in Michigan and approximate year of birth, he may be in the geological records.

I'd bet my sparkling ruby red bippy that his given name was Samuel.

My sister's a genealogist. If you have any other clues I can have her do some checking.

8

The Proof is all Around Us

by suavojr in

jw
friends

https://youtu.be/8imamwcet1c.

Cold Steel

The message is so new, fresh, vibrant. We're in the last days. Armageddon is right around the corner. We need to get the word out, turn our lives over to a man-made religious order that will dictate who we are, what our educational standards will be, how we dress, how we interpret scriptures, what our grooming habits are and who will give us counsel and hold sway over our families.

Yes, JEHOVAH, if this is of you, fill the heavens with your presence! See? Nothing! Obviously he's doing it invisibly! You don't see it because you can't. But not seeing is believing! And if we're to believe the scriptures, Armageddon will be here by 1975, 2023 tops! Okay, 2035 at the latest.... But it will be soon.

Proof!

14

Review of Awake Magazine: Philosophy 101: How to Construct a Logical Syllogism

by Saename in

this morning my brother and my mother (whom i mentioned in my previous topic when we had a conversation about evolution) visited a jehovah's witness, and when they returned, they returned with the awake!

magazine that they received from the witness.

the magazine is entitled, "is the bible really from god?

Cold Steel

When one considers the magazine itself, plus the age and predisposition of the readership and the age and background of the writer who writes these articles, is it any wonder that tend to be for uneducated readers? These writers are most likely younger folk who for whatever reason decided not to follow a path to higher education. Their target audience is young, much like themselves, and they most likely also will not be following a path to higher education. They already believe the Bible is the word of God or they wouldn't be reading it.

30

Marrying yourself is now a thing....

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

ok i'am old so i need some help to understand this new thing, what's the point in marrying yourself?

this sound like a gb brain storm idea....i guess you can never commit adultery....

Cold Steel

Here's how you do it.

A Guide

https://tinybuddha.com/blog/marry-yourself-creating-sacred-vows-for-self-love/

And why:

http://prospect.org/article/marrying-yourself

I was going to marry myself last April, but the asshole never showed up!

13

Elder Told A JW To Ignore Governing Body Advice

by pale.emperor in

i had an interesting conversation with a fellow ex-jw yesterday.

for the sake of this post lets call her "katie".

katie is a former pioneer who suddenly stopped attending meetings and managed to be left alone by the elders.

Cold Steel

Pale.Emperor » She asked me if i was going to ever "return to Jehovah". I said no, never. Then she visited Paul (and elder in the congregation). She asked Paul what she should do. She doesn't want to shun me and thinks its not right. Paul told her "dont worry about it". He said that announcement was wrong and doesn't expect anyone to follow it. And it'll probably be forgotten."

Am I reading this right? If I had left, I don't think I'd use the term "return to Jehovah." I might have said, "You have any intention of going back?" Also, what's "Katie" doing by then going to an elder in the congregation and asking what she should do? Sounds like she was seeking counsel. It may be just me, but are you sure she's all the way out?

Shunning is, to me, the single greatest evil this religion engages in -- worse even than the insipid blood doctrine. By telling active dubs that their eternal welfare depends on them doing what they're told, they're exercising frightening dominion over people.

So what would have happened if the elder had said, "Absolutely not! You're not to have anything to do with Pale.Emperor feller!"

I just find it curious.

33

Can the dead hear?

by AmyWatson916 in

the "what does the bible really teach?

" book says we cannot speak to the dead (page 64) and that the dead do not hear (page 58) but on page 68 the book has jesus talking to a dead man and the dead man apparently hearing and responding.

the same thing happens on page 69 when peter talks to a dead woman and the dead woman apparently hears and responds.

Cold Steel

I like Cicero's observation better: “A mind without instruction can no more bear fruit than can a field, however fertile, without cultivation.”

We have a body of information in near death experiences that bears serious examination. I say that because of the consistency of many of the accounts. I'm not saying we should accept that body as a whole. Like UFO sightings (which also bears further investigation) one has to go on a case-by-case basis. If someone was in a hospital and it was a matter of record that they actually had a death experience (some revived in hospital morgues); and if that person's account is remarkably like others, such as a multitude of thick vegetation and colors, large spacious buildings, meeting and having intelligent conversations with loved ones who had passed, etc., and if they had solid reputations with those in their communities, they bear further examination. If they were in their studies, spoke in tongues at their local Pentecostal churches, see angels with large white wings and are willing to send you their stories for a twenty-dollar "gift offering," that's in another category. And if they sound like Jonathan Winters as the farmer who saw a flying saucer, they go in still another pile.

There are good, honorable people who have had, to me, fully credible stories. They are not ridiculous, absurd or easy to dismiss any more than UFO stories.

33

Can the dead hear?

by AmyWatson916 in

the "what does the bible really teach?

" book says we cannot speak to the dead (page 64) and that the dead do not hear (page 58) but on page 68 the book has jesus talking to a dead man and the dead man apparently hearing and responding.

the same thing happens on page 69 when peter talks to a dead woman and the dead woman apparently hears and responds.

Cold Steel

Cofty » The plural of anecdote is not data.

That's true, and there are a number of cases that I find disturbingly suspicious, just as there are in UFO sightings and reports of hauntings. The father who wrote a book about his son Colton's near death experience (Heaven Is For Real, by Todd Burpo) was a best-selling book made into a movie. From the beginning, the account seemed scripted. It began as a book, was adapted into a children's version and then was offered as a study guide with notes and then as an Audible Book before being released as a movie. I'd bought it when it first appeared because Todd was a minister and I wanted to see how the story played out. After only about twenty minutes I realized it was fabricated, and as the supplemental material came out (not to mention the movie), the account itself was far too different from the other, more believable and consistent, accounts I had read.

Each case by itself is anecdotal, but as a body they begin to look a lot more like data in their consistency. The same is true about the UFO stories. They cannot be universally accepted, but neither should they be universally dismissed. There are just too many of them and many of them have been witnessed. To be skeptical is one thing; to dismiss them all as anecdotes is quite another.